Science Library Pad

Canada and Kyoto

Canada ratified Kyoto in 2002, but then didn't actually take any steps to implement it.
Here's what's going on:

The opposition parties teamed up Wednesday to pass a private member's bill that requires the government to meet international Kyoto targets

CBC - Opposition MPs pass Kyoto bill despite Tory resistance

It's Bill C-288 in the current session.  It now goes to the Senate (it is not yet law).

5. (1) Within 60 days after this Act comes into force and not later than May 31 of every year thereafter until 2013, the Minister shall prepare a Climate Change Plan

There has also been recent provincial activity.  Prime Minister Harper gave the province of Quebec hundreds of millions of dollars to support its goal of full Kyoto compliance, as part of a $1.5 billion initiative.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper unveiled a $1.5-billion fund yesterday to help provinces reduce greenhouse gases, allocating the first $350-million to Quebec on the eve of an expected provincial election.

The province of British Columbia is also setting a goal of a "33 per cent cut in greenhouse gas emissions from current levels by 2020".

TVO's The Agenda has had a couple recent shows on Kyoto and the environment, you can watch the video online (Flash format).

Monday February 12, 2007 - Kyoto and You
Tuesday February 13, 2007 - The Greening of Big Business

Auditor-General reports on NRC

2007 Report of the Auditor General of Canada - Status Report - Chapter 3 -
Management of Leading-Edge Research: National Research Council Canada

We examined the progress made by the NRC in addressing the recommendations from our 2004 audit, when we reported problems related to the NRC's corporate governance, mechanisms for setting strategic direction, management of research projects and human resources, and performance measurement and reporting.

Why it's important

...

The NRC employs about 4,000 scientists and support staff in 18 research institutes and 2 technology centres across Canada. Its annual spending is about $800 million. It is essential that the NRC be able to recruit and retain the best scientists and researchers and manage its research activities strategically to ensure that its work remains relevant for Canada's future research needs in science and technology.

What we found

    * The National Research Council has made satisfactory progress overall since 2004 in responding to our recommendations. It has addressed the recommendations in the area of corporate governance, corporate strategic direction, and human resources management. However, progress is unsatisfactory in the documenting of key decisions at the institute level and in performance measurement and reporting.

SOA video from e-Framework

A slick video (animation) explaining Service-Oriented Architecture from a university and e-Science perspective.  Available in QuickTime or Windows Media, or you can read just the raw transcript.

Introducing the Service Oriented Approach

near the end it talks about the myGrid scientific workflow project.

via David Flanders

Just to revisit a theme that continues to concern me: are major library-related IT architecture groups talking to one another?  Should they be?  We learned not to build siloed systems, are we building siloed architectures?

Initiatives I am aware of include:

• e-Framework for Education and Research
• Digital Library Federation Services Framework
• Rethinking Resource Sharing Policies Committee (buried as a subcommittee of a subcommittee, and password-protected, in typical ALA fashion)
• DEFF XML Web Services (Danish library Web Services)
• Education Commons - SOA in Higher Education
• Fedora Web Services and workflow
• DELOS Digital Library Architecture
• lots of work every year presented at the various Digital Library Conferences
• various grid and e-Science projects
• UPDATE 2007-06-02: California Digital Library (CDL) Common Framework ENDUPDATE

Previously:
December 20, 2006  my presentation on SOA and BPEL for Access 2006
July 16, 2006  library Web Services - are we making any progress

archiving - CITRA 2007 in Quebec City

The International Council on Archives (ICA) has an annual "round table" conference: Conférence internationale de la Table ronde des Archives (CITRA).  Unfortunately (degree of irony up to you) the CITRA web site is not actually organized.  I can tell you that

1. You can find info on CITRA 2001-2003 at http://www.ica.org/citra/
2. You can find info on CITRA 2005-2007 at http://www.ica.org/news.php?pnewsid=188

As for CITRA 2004?  Err, maybe it's in the archives somewhere.

3. The CITRA 2006 conference was in Curaçao and all the info and presentations are available at

http://www.citra2006.ica.org/

4. The CITRA 2007 conference will be in Quebec City, and is hosted by the BANQ.  I couldn't find out exactly when it will take place.  Sometime in November 2007 I think.  The theme is "Cooperation to Preserve Diversity".

Nature - Climate Change 2007 special

The IPCC report, released in Paris, has served a useful purpose in removing the last ground from under the climate-change sceptics' feet, leaving them looking marooned and ridiculous. However, this predicament was already clear enough. Opinion in business circles, in particular, has moved on. A report released on 19 January [2007] by Citigroup, Climatic Consequences — the sort of eloquently written, big-picture stuff that the well-informed chief executive reads on a Sunday afternoon — states even more firmly than the IPCC that anthropogenic climate change is a fact that world governments are moving to confront.

Nature - Light at the end of the tunnel (editorial, links to rest of special report)
Nature 445, 567 (8 February 2007) | doi:10.1038/445567a; Published online 7 February 2007; Corrected 9 February 2007

(The full Citigroup / Smith Barney report "Climatic Consequences: Investment Implications of a Changing Climate" is apparently now only available from Citigroup Financial Advisors.)

OLA 2007 - next generation ILS presentations

Ontario Library Association (OLA) Superconference 2007 presentations are up.

I haven't checked many of them, but I do highly recommend

ILS, The Next Generation: Modularity and Outward Integration (PowerPoint)

and

The Changing Nature of the Catalogue and its Integration with Other Discovery Systems (PowerPoint)

both by Karen Calhoun

UPDATE 2007-02-13: Since I find myself accidentally in the position of "recommender" (thanks LISnews), here are a couple more that I liked

* Perceptions and Expectations of the [Public] Library Brand (PDF)

An interesting examination of the challenge in extending the perception of the public library beyond books.  I liked this slide:

The term "library" cannot [be] extended to include services other than the circulation of books when there is little public trust in the brand.

The good news is that many public libraries have successfully branded themselves as knowledge providers, going far beyond books.

* Lastly, the obligatory blogwikiflickr presentation, although in 2007 I feel this is a bit like being in 1967 and talking about the marvel of the internal combustion engine, aren't blogs already retro?  Aren't we beyond the "blogs are exciting and new, come aboard, we're expecting you" stage?

Web Tools to Inspire Learning (PowerPoint)

Wikis, blogues, folksonomie et autres

Links from a presentation given by Élisabeth Lavigueur in Quebec

Liens de la présentation du 9 février 2007

standard IT architects

IT architect is one of the hottest jobs in tech right now, thanks in part to more companies trying to build service-oriented architectures. The problem: Not everyone agrees about what IT architects are supposed to do or know.

...

IT standards consortium Open Group is launching the industry's first professional association for IT architects. Called the Association of Open Group Enterprise Architects [AOGEA], it's looking to "elevate" the profession by promoting certification and establishing ethics standards and architecture principles.

...
A shortage of IT pros who can guide SOA development is one of the biggest hurdles for SOA adoption. Analyst firm ZapThink and staffing company Excel, seeing a market in that shortage, have launched the Architect Resource Center, a consulting service

from InformationWeek - IT Architects In High Demand - January 29, 2007

I'm all for architecture principles and standards.  I think certification is bullsh-t though (not just for IT architecture, for any kind of IT).  And if you can't figure out ethics on your own, no Association is going to help you.  AOGEA seems to have a needlessly complex structure based around certification levels.  Count me out for the time being.  Err, although the conference in Paris looks nice...

For the record, my title is Technology Architect - IT, but since that is rarely meaningful to people, I usually tell them I'm a technology planner (or if I'm feeling grand, an enterprise strategic technology planner).

publishing 2.0 - ideas from Nature Medicine

what is the Web 2.0–driven scientific publishing world going to look like? For starters, what already is a very specialized market (people interested in, say, apoptosis) will become even more fractionated (people specifically interested in apoptosis in the developing liver of the mouse and who use detection kits from Stratagene—a set of conditions almost as strict as those you might expect to find on a dating website). Second, blogs and social-networking sites can provide a forum for giving visibility to papers published in obscure journals and deprecate articles from high-profile titles. Third, the availability of wikis that cobble together documents from the collective knowledge of their users may eventually make it unnecessary for journals to publish reviews—you could theoretically update and expand one broad review on any topic ad infinitum.

What we have, then, is a world divided into small tribes (some of which could well fit in a family minivan), in which the safety of being one of many people able to express their points of view has replaced the authority of experts, and in which, using a clever, increasingly cited paraphrase of Andy Warhol's "15 minutes of fame", everybody will eventually be famous to 15 people. In such a world, is there room for journals like Nature Medicine?

Nature Medicine 2.0 (editorial)
Nature Medicine - 13, 1 (2007)
doi:10.1038/nm0107-1

There is an accompanying posting in the Nature Medicine blog, Spoonful

One idea is that the community will increasingly do without high-profile journals to decide what an important paper is and what it is not. If many scientists get together to discuss papers in social-networking sites, they may provide visibility to papers published in obscure journals and deprecate articles from more visible titles.

If this becomes the case, and if high-profile journals make enough editorial mistakes while selecting the papers we publish, then the value of those publications will indeed go down. If this happens, then it won’t matter whether you publish in Nature Medicine or in a very specialized journal—if your paper is good, the community will appreciate it.

...

What’s your take on this matter? Do you really imagine a time when publishing in Nature or Science will stop being as meaningful as it is now? Or perhaps this question is misplaced and the impact of Web 2.0 on journals will take a totally different form. What kind of Web 2.0–driven changes do you think we need to worry about?

Spoonful of Medicine - Nature Medicine 2.0 - January 5, 2007

via Pimm - Nature Medicine 2.0 alarms by its editor in chief

things about me

Things you may not know about me.

1. I have ankylosing spondylitis, a type of arthritis that is fortunately highly responsive to exercise and physio.

2. I never do exercise and physio.

3. I have a cat.

4. I hate these chain mailing blog chain list things.

5. I have taken lots of computer science courses.  Here is a mostly-complete list, exported from Google Spreadsheets.  (I have not included any of the physics, math, and astrophysics courses, unless computer-related.)

Number Where Type Date Description Notes CS 1511 MtA Undergrad 1987-1988 Intro to Computing I Pascal CS 1522 MtA Undergrad 1987-1988 Intro to Computing II Pascal CS 2201 MtA Undergrad 1988-1989 Intro to File Processing COBOL Math/CS 3001 MtA Undergrad 1988-1989 Numerical Analysis I CS 2352 MtA Undergrad 1988-1989 Assembly Language Programming CS 3711 MtA Undergrad 1989-1990 Principles of Programming Languages Math 2211 MtA Undergrad 1989-1990 Discrete Mathematics Math/CS 3511 MtA Undergrad 1989-1990 Linear Programming CS 3912 MtA Undergrad 1989-1990 Intro to Operating Systems Math/CS 3522 MtA Undergrad 1989-1990 Nonlinear Optimization MtA Degree 7-May-1990 B.Sc. Physics, Area of Concentration in Computer Science and Mathematics CISC 352 Queen's Undergrad Fall 1990 Artificial Intelligence I CISC 435 Queen's Undergrad Winter 1991 Communications and Networks CISC 322 Queen's Undergrad Winter 1992 Modularity & Specifications CISC 365 Queen's Undergrad WInter 1992 Algorithms I CISC 856 Queen's Grad Course Winter 1992 Artificial Intelligence CISC 838 Queen's Grad Course Fall 1992 Software Engineering ACI Training 1993-1994 Intro to IT and Operating Systems 90 hours

ACI Training 1993-1994 Business Systems Theory using Lotus and WordPerfect 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Intro to Database Development Using dBASE IV 60 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Intro to Database Programming Using dBASE IV 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Software Engineering: Analysis & Design 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Intro Windows GUI Programming Using FoxPro 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Advanced Windows GUI Programming Using FoxPro 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Software Engineering: QA and Testing 60 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 PC Hardware Configuration 30 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Advanced PC Management Using DOS & Windows 30 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Novell Netware: System Management 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Intro Application Development Using Visual Basic 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Advanced Application Development Using Visual Basic 90 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 Presentation Using Harvard Graphics 30 hours ACI Training 1993-1994 C Language Programming 72 hours (optional) ACI Training 1993-1994 Personal Research Project ICCP Certification March 1994 Associate Computing Professional Pascal computer language proficiency ACI Diploma September 1994 Applied Computer Technology TUNS Continuing Ed 24-Jun-1995 Internetworking: Bridges, Routers & Gateways TUNS Continuing Ed 4-Dec-1995 Introduction to Object-Oriented Techniques With C++ DalTech Continuing Ed 13-Jul-1998 Java Programming

DalTech Continuing Ed 7-Jul-1999 Advanced Java Programming Transarc Training 16-Dec-1998 Programming with Encina CSCI 6704 Dal Grad Course Fall 1998 Advanced Topics in Computer Networks CSCI 6705 Dal Grad Course Winter 1999 Computer Telephony CSCI 6606 Dal Grad Course Fall 1999 Advanced Topics in Multimedia ECMM 6012 Dal Grad Course Winter 2000 ECommerce Security and Payments CSCI 6504 Dal Grad Course Summer 2000 Advanced Topics in Intelligent Agents CSCI 6404 Dal Grad Course Winter 2001 Web Information Systems CSCI 6706 Dal Grad Course Fall 2001? Enterprise Information Systems Architecture

imagined Canada is Costa book prize winner

Winner of the 2006 Costa Book of the Year award: Stef Penney's The Tenderness of Wolves, a book set in 1867 Canada.

On leaving university, Stef became agoraphobic and could barely travel.  She has never been to Canada and researched The Tenderness of Wolves at The British Library.  Now recovered, Stef is 37 and lives in East London.

Canadian Living interviewed Stef Penney as it made the book its January Book Club pick.

I live near the British Library in London, and so I read everything I could find on the Canada of the period -- a lot of it written by Hudson Bay employees. In fact, the more I read, the more I became convinced that the Company had to be a part of the story.

Hardcover ISBN13: 978-1905204816

Paperback ISBN13: 978-1847240675

(Why don't ISBN13 searches work through WorldCat and Google?  Are the ISBN13s not indexed yet?  If I go directly to WorldCat.org it works.)

The imagined landscape angle is interesting, but on the other hand, it's not like you can visit 1867 anyway - and aren't even the places we have actually been to some extent imagined?  How much of a trip to London ends up being real, and how much "London of the mind"?  In fact you will find a number of books for both "imagining london" and "imagined london", including Anna Quindlen's Imagined London: A Tour of the World's Greatest Fictional City.

Europe - Canada research connection

ERA-Can is a collaborative, international initiative to increase science and technology cooperation between Canada and the European Research Area (ERA). It is jointly funded by the European Commission and Canada.

If you're interested, you might want to check out the upcoming

FP7 Information Days are being planned the week of March 12 [2007] for Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. ICT is the largest component of FP7 with a budget of $5.2 billion Euros. At the Information Days presentations from the ICT NCP directorate of the European Commission outlining the 7 ICT Challenges as well as information on how Canadian researchers can participate in the COST program are planned. The newly established ERA-Can office will cover information relating to the other thematic areas of FP7, including life sciences, health, biotechnology, agriculture, environment and food.

Federal and provincial funding agencies will also be on hand to provide up-to-date information on current programs. Opportunities for networking and meeting other researchers will also be a key component of these sessions.

Danish library strategies

DEFF (Denmark's Electronic Research Library) has released a discussion paper that I would characterize as "possible roles for the (digital) library)".

Discussion Paper about Library Development in Denmark

It's a 16 page PDF (in English).  Lots of good background and interesting ideas.

via the DEFF RSS feed which is on their site somewhere

I also noted recently the release of what my mangle-Danish-into-English translation makes out as "new plan for bibliotek.dk"

Nye planer for Bibliotek.dk

It appears to be a fairly detailed technical plan, absolutely none of which I can understand other than by using my aforementioned "that word looks similar to an English or French word" translation approach.

Clearly, the solution is to send me to Denmark immediately.

On which note, Danish library/technology people, feel free to contact me.  I actually sent two emails a while ago but they seem to have gone unanswered.  I want to discuss more about Danish library Web Services.

UPDATE 2007-02-06: My Flickr photos tagged Denmark from when I was at InfoGrid 2005 and Euro Fedora 2005.

Ricoh 500SE expensive GPS-ready camera

Camera manufacturers continue to position GPS-enabled cameras at the very high end, either for pro photographers or as GIS-imaging solutions.

The Ricoh 500SE is "GPS-ready", which means you can use it either with an optional Ricoh GPS unit, or with any Bluetooth NMEA GPS (and possibly optionally WiFi NMEA GPS).  It will automatically geocode photos if it can find a GPS - including displaying the location & number of satellites on its LCD screen, and storing the coordinates in the EXIF.

UPDATE 2008-09-18: See information from Ricoh.com and Ricoh-USA.com

The camera itself comes in SE-B (Bluetooth only) and SE-W (wireless plus Bluetooth) versions.

The optional GPS is called the Ricoh SE-1 GPS Module, it attaches to the left side and partially covers the top of the camera, it uses the SIRFstar III chipset.  See the SE1 Product Overview (PDF) for more information.

ENDUPDATE

It's an 8 megapixel camera.

It is not available yet, Ricoh is positioning it to only be available from "Ricoh Geo-Imaging Resellers".
Initial pricing looks like about US$900 for the camera, and US$1100 for the camera plus Ricoh GPS.

You would really have to want an integrated solution in order to pay this much.

via The Map Room

UPDATE 2008-09-18: The Ricoh 500SE is not widely available.  There are only a few sites online that sell it.  If you're interested in a consumer camera with built-in GPS, check out the Nikon P6000, which is priced at U$500.

comparing iPhone, Sony K790, Nokia N95

Also an experiment in exporting a Google Spreadsheet

iPhone Sony K790 Nokia N95 camera megapixels 2 3.2 5 sideways ? yes ? flash no yes yes MP3 yes yes yes GPS no no[1] yes storage internal 4GB or 8GB 64MB 160MB expansion no Mem Stick Micro (M2) MicroSD connections Bluetooth, WiFi, dock Bluetooth, Infrared, USB Bluetooth, WiFi, USB FM Radio no yes yes OS "Mac OSX" (closed) Java + Sony proprietary Symbian S60 in Canada? Q4 2007? Rogers Q2 2007? price 590+ 380 845

Price is in Canadian dollars.  Price is for phone with no contract (note that iPhone is not available without a contract).

K790 is as low as Can$200 with 3 year contract.

UPDATE 2007-02-12: That lower K790 price is for a 3 year NEW contract (no existing phone # with Rogers).  If you have an existing number ("line") or contract with Rogers, the upgrade options are not as good.  I was offered a price of Can$350 with 2 year contract, Can$300 with 3 year contract, plus in either case Can$35 "administration fee".  That makes for a pretty pricey phone once you add in taxes.  I couldn't find any way to buy the phone online from Rogers at the "no contract term" theoretical price.  ENDUPDATE

UPDATE 2007-02-22: You can also buy a K790 (without a contract with any wireless provider) directly from Sony Style Canada for Can$410.  ENDUPDATE

Note [1}: K790 GPS - The K790 developer documentation makes no mention of GPS, and the K790 does not support Java JSR 179 Location API.  Therefore there appears to be no internal  built-in GPS capability on the K790.

I think I am going to get a K790.  The iPhone is underfeatured, not to mention unavailable, and the N95 is over-expensive.

What remains unknown is whether it will be possible to auto-geocode photos, embedding their GPS locations as they are taken.

UPDATE 2007-02-23: I got a K790, for more info, see my K790 review.  With additional software and an external GPS, photo geotagging is possible.  ENDUPDATE

"Sideways" in the camera section means that you turn the phone landscape mode to take a photo, very much like a regular camera.

Information sources:

• http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html
• SonyEricsson - K790i specifications
• Nokia Press Release - N95
• All About Symbian - N95
• Wikipedia - iPhone, Sony Ericsson K800, Nokia N95

UPDATE 2007-02-26: There is some more technical information about the N95 at

http://forum.nokia.com/devices/N95

UPDATE 2007-05-05: In the US, you can get cell phones and plans directly through Amazon; the specific offerings depend on your location.

SenseWeb data mapping from Microsoft Research

SenseWeb is a research portal that lets users visualize and query real-time data using a geographical interface such as Windows Live Local and allows data owners to easily publish their live data using web service interfaces.

http://research.microsoft.com/nec/senseweb/

Google Scholar as good as the library?

This is the conclusion of a research study to be published in the next issue of Internet and Higher Education. I've emailed the authors to see if they're planning on depositing the paper in their Institutional Repository...  It's only a pre-print right now so I can't give you a complete citation, but if you subscribe to Science Direct you may be able to access the article here.

from The Distant Librarian

UPDATE 2007-02-06: You may have better luck with the DOI link

doi:10.1016/j.iheduc.2006.10.002

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.iheduc.2006.10.002

The study is quite small (N=27) and the number of citations compared is also (N=72).  My summary would be "students can get good (trustworthy, high quality) citations by searching through their library or through Google Scholar, but if they search only Google they often get junk and don't realize it".  The specific metrics they used for quality were authority & reputation, objectivity, academic rigor, and transparency.  While these criteria are relevant for academic work, they may be less so for the general public.

eduSource - not dead yet?

I don't know what the state of learning object repositories is in Canada.
Via Ten Thousand Year Blog I find apparently the vestiges of the eduSource project

http://edusource.licef.teluq.uquebec.ca/ese/en/index.jsp

Previously:
December 20, 2006  Web Services for Learning Object Repositories

Amapedia - Amazon Product Wiki next generation

I'm not sure this effort is going anywhere, but what I find interesting is the amount of content that Amazon is able to get customers to contribute for free.

http://amapedia.amazon.com/

via Ten Thousand Year Blog

Previously:
November 26, 2005  Behold the power of Wikizon: Amazon adds ProductWiki

law libraries conf in Ottawa 2007

The draft program for the 2007 conference of the Canadian Association of Law Libraries is up on the association's website.

The event takes place in Ottawa from May 6 to the 9th, 2007 at the Fairmont Château Laurier, located just east of Parliament Hill.

from Library Boy

building a 2.0 library website

A useful article Building a Library Web Site on the Pillars of Web 2.0 in InfoToday's Computers in Libraries.  Karen A. Coombs identifies six web 2.0 pillars that were used in the website redesign at the University of Houston Libraries

1. Radical decentralization
2. Small pieces loosely joined
3. Perpetual beta
4. Remixable content
5. User as contributor
6. Rich user experience

I guess the resulting site is http://info.lib.uh.edu/

via Creative Librarian

climate change references from Library of Congress

In United States they shoot you... with knowledge.
The rather bizarrely named "Science Tracer Bullets" series from the Library of Congress highlights resources in a particular topic area.  A recent one is

Global Warming & Climate Change

via ResourceShelf

4th IPCC Climate Change Assessment Report - WG1 released

• Webcast of the press conference (Windows Media, audio but no video on my Mac, only works in IE on my PC - a bit slow to start showing new slides, but they do start eventually, out of sync with the audio)
• Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis - Summary for Policymakers (PDF, 21 pages)

More info at http://www.ipcc.ch/

There are two more working group reports to come out during the rest of 2007.  There will also, if I understand correctly, be a final, brief (30 page) synthesis report.

updated Council of Cdn Academies Wikipedia entry

When I created a Wikipedia entry for the Council of Canadian Academies (CCA), as part of my quest to understand the federal science & technology advisory structure, and then subsequently criticised some
changed to the entry, I never imagined it would start the following chain of events:

- the CCA contacted me by phone to discuss my concerns
- they invited me to their offices (in downtown Ottawa) to discuss further and also, as it turned out, to talk a bit about science in the Web 2.0 world in general
- after a couple rounds of proposed revisions, they invited me back to their offices to help with the updating of the entry

Amazing the way that the Internet enables unexpected connections.
My kudos to Katherine Levitt who did the revisions and the actual Wikipedia text entry.  I just provided some critique, my perceptions of good Wikipedia etiquette and minimal syntax guidance.  I appreciate the warm reception they gave to my comments and ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Canadian_Academies

4 new genres of library services

From an ALA TechSource interview with Michael C. Habib

• Services Based on Web 2.0 Concepts
• Using a Web 2.0 Service for Providing Library Services
• Services in Response to Cultural Effects of Web 2.0
• Services in Response to Environmental Effects of Web 2.0

Very interesting work he has done - definitely something to investigate further.